I was thinking about how politicians got involved with this ban on dredging in ca, and basically it all comes down to $$$. Politicans want cash to fund election and re election campaigns, large contributers get something in return for funding, our politicians are being extorted with the threat of losing that funding if they dont do what the lobiests want (in a nut shell). So why doesnt someone or some group that can pool a large group of miners and has a little know how, locate either a current or future leader, that has the mind set that we want in a leader, gather donations and sponsor a candidate with the same type of agreement? The gpaa is extreamly large and im sure that most all prospecting groups would heed the call since ultimately these bans and careless laws effect all of the prospecting groups and clubs equally. There are an awful lot of prospectors out there and im sure if done properly we could get a substantial amount of funding together to back a candidate/'s. Instead of only fighting it in court, why not get a chair at the table? And take the fight to the state capitols and wasington d.c. ! Im not at all familiar with how it all works its just a thought but its one i havent heard before. It just seems it would be easier to stop these bans before they were signed in to law!
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Well I do Belive That sence I was Born and have Grown up in this State I Would Have a Say ;)I Would Like to see Each County Devided Up in to Smaller States, Each one Has to Fend for its Own Needs!!
I Agree close down the Border to stop school Over crowding and lower my tax bill or let the schools lose some more teachers then they will impose the own roles of Checking Imagration status and Tax ability.. OPPS a little off topic :]~ here check out this u tub video of mining sand ( http://youtu.be/CBaH0Zmlecg )..
I agree with you, Scott, but here's what I've observed: First, you have the high bankers, and trommel operators saying " we don't dredge, so the dredge ban doesn't affect us. Then you have the problem that historically prospectors are individualists- they don't organize well. In my opinion, we need to join with the big mining companies to fight the eco nuts; they have the lobbiest, and the finances to fight the enviromentalists. Really when you look at it, the only difference between them and us, is an EIS. I've worked for several large mining companies, and in talking to their managment, they are all for the small time prospector ( we save them a lot of exploration work). The problem is: most prospectors have bought into the "us against them" idea promoted by the enviromentalists. Ever heard of the "divide and conquer" concept?
I agree whole heartedly, i think the main problem is, of all the folks who enjoy activities rivers, prospectors make up a small portion and we are scattered throughout the us. Ca is a very big state and getting prospectors to drive up from southern ca, to sac to be heard is a tall order. The reason i originally posted was that it seems that the only way to have a say in these types of bans weather forest road closures or dredge bans etc. Is to get a dog in the fight. These politicians dont know shit about what their doing. Its the greenies and other groups that have baned togethe pooled their money and now have enoigh capitol to get the attention of potential candidates or existing law makers. We as miners need to do the same thing. I have never dredged yet i am not blind. I see this as a freedom issue and this effects all of us. Miner or not! The dredge ban is just 1 step in these anti everything groups overall goal. They have successfully divided the fisherman from us when really we have more common interests than differences. You remember a couple years ago before the ban was even on the radar they went after fisherman commercial and recreational. They completely closed salmon fishing in ca. Since there is a lot more fisherman the outrage was heard around the country. So they went after dredging a smaller group spread out through out the state. Not as many mining stores and no commercial dredging here so its an easier fight for them to win. since mining industry is so much smaller than fishing it wont get as much media attention. The simple fact is, they are trying to blame someone for the plight of the salmon to avoid the real reason in the salmon decline. As far as divide and conquer, is that like democrat/Republican division to make the dumbass american citizens think they actually have a say in who take office? Lol!
Good points scott, but the fish angle has been tried before and we can't get a difinitive action there apart from the "Greenie" aspect.
GPAA is too well known, just look at the slamming about them in one of our own threads. Publicity has given them a black eye, even within the prospecting community. Need to take the MAIN focus off of prospectors, the general public really doesn't give a squat about your prospecting rights, and go at it from other points too.
I think we need a new group that focus's on the freedom aspect and how all freedoms are in danger if this trend continues. All people are being effected. Now follow that up with the actual scientific proof to support the nature issues. It's not just the prospectors, but the farmers, the fishermen, small businesses, right on throuigh to the suburb Mom and her child's future. The "left" can be taught, well at least some of them.
We need a champion for the little guy and there just doesn't seem to be one out there that can muster the needed support.
Have to hit the competition from many angles. Freedoms, habitat, health, and the benefit to the general population, to name a few.
Biggest problem is that rules and regulations have gotten to where there are so many that no one can sort them out. I don't think anybody knows who is right anymore. I figure we need a sweeping reform all across the spectrum.
I'm glad to see that you have caught on there, scott.
Got the nail right on the head.
The trick is getting a lot of likeminded people together. Maybe set up some ralleys. Not just in the major towns/cities You have to reach the guy in the stream too. Posibly join in at local club meetings.
l'd say follow NRA's lead and set up local "Friends of,.." chapters.
You'll need leaders and staff open to "member" input.
.....and some one/body or 2 or 3 to head the organization.
.....and so on, and so on, until we become what we're against.
An organizationm run on money, with good intentions, and no monitary or moral control.
It's man's nature to get greedy, espeacially if there is any money involved. Think about it. We've all been there at least one time in our lives.
I have,...
Comes down to organize and give it our best shot.
What if we lose? We wouldn't lose anything more than if we had not tried at all.
What if we win? We get to keep all freedoms alive for another day, each freedom supporting the other.
Best place to start, "The Bill Of Rights", as writen.
Follow that with "The Constitution", as writen.
....and volinteers?, you can always get those, even if for only a few minutes. "Excuse me please, would you mind carrying one of these boxes for me?" Approached propperly, people like to help.
People may even go for "in house" gatherings of a few in an area.
Gotta keep an eye on the prise, the rest will fall in place.
Well, there's my $.50, if its worth that. That would still be a local call right? LOL
Replies
I have talked to several Fish and Game emoloyees and they said if there is no trail down to where you are dredging
they will not come down to give your warning.. Just wave at you!!
Second time they catch you you get a citation.
So they are not going out of their way to catch you.
The more remote the better of course!
Well I do Belive That sence I was Born and have Grown up in this State I Would Have a Say ;)I Would Like to see Each County Devided Up in to Smaller States, Each one Has to Fend for its Own Needs!!
Then to make things worse the state California they come up with this great idea.
http://www.icmj.com/article.php?id=1515&keywords=Are_Permits_Ne...
I Agree close down the Border to stop school Over crowding and lower my tax bill or let the schools lose some more teachers then they will impose the own roles of Checking Imagration status and Tax ability.. OPPS a little off topic :]~ here check out this u tub video of mining sand ( http://youtu.be/CBaH0Zmlecg )..
well heres my 2 cents worth ca needs to get rid of all the fruts n nuts along with the politicans
Leave your Dredge on the Trailer hooked to your ATV and Call it a HIGHBANKER .. Problem Solved
I agree with you, Scott, but here's what I've observed: First, you have the high bankers, and trommel operators saying " we don't dredge, so the dredge ban doesn't affect us. Then you have the problem that historically prospectors are individualists- they don't organize well. In my opinion, we need to join with the big mining companies to fight the eco nuts; they have the lobbiest, and the finances to fight the enviromentalists. Really when you look at it, the only difference between them and us, is an EIS. I've worked for several large mining companies, and in talking to their managment, they are all for the small time prospector ( we save them a lot of exploration work). The problem is: most prospectors have bought into the "us against them" idea promoted by the enviromentalists. Ever heard of the "divide and conquer" concept?
Good points scott, but the fish angle has been tried before and we can't get a difinitive action there apart from the "Greenie" aspect.
GPAA is too well known, just look at the slamming about them in one of our own threads. Publicity has given them a black eye, even within the prospecting community. Need to take the MAIN focus off of prospectors, the general public really doesn't give a squat about your prospecting rights, and go at it from other points too.
I think we need a new group that focus's on the freedom aspect and how all freedoms are in danger if this trend continues. All people are being effected. Now follow that up with the actual scientific proof to support the nature issues. It's not just the prospectors, but the farmers, the fishermen, small businesses, right on throuigh to the suburb Mom and her child's future. The "left" can be taught, well at least some of them.
We need a champion for the little guy and there just doesn't seem to be one out there that can muster the needed support.
Have to hit the competition from many angles. Freedoms, habitat, health, and the benefit to the general population, to name a few.
Biggest problem is that rules and regulations have gotten to where there are so many that no one can sort them out. I don't think anybody knows who is right anymore. I figure we need a sweeping reform all across the spectrum.
I'm glad to see that you have caught on there, scott.
Got the nail right on the head.
The trick is getting a lot of likeminded people together. Maybe set up some ralleys. Not just in the major towns/cities You have to reach the guy in the stream too. Posibly join in at local club meetings.
l'd say follow NRA's lead and set up local "Friends of,.." chapters.
You'll need leaders and staff open to "member" input.
.....and some one/body or 2 or 3 to head the organization.
.....and so on, and so on, until we become what we're against.
An organizationm run on money, with good intentions, and no monitary or moral control.
It's man's nature to get greedy, espeacially if there is any money involved. Think about it. We've all been there at least one time in our lives.
I have,...
Comes down to organize and give it our best shot.
What if we lose? We wouldn't lose anything more than if we had not tried at all.
What if we win? We get to keep all freedoms alive for another day, each freedom supporting the other.
Best place to start, "The Bill Of Rights", as writen.
Follow that with "The Constitution", as writen.
....and volinteers?, you can always get those, even if for only a few minutes. "Excuse me please, would you mind carrying one of these boxes for me?" Approached propperly, people like to help.
People may even go for "in house" gatherings of a few in an area.
Gotta keep an eye on the prise, the rest will fall in place.
Well, there's my $.50, if its worth that. That would still be a local call right? LOL
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