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Highbanking banned in California?

Posted by Sam Sloane on July 19, 2010 at 8:05pm in General Discussions
I was just informed this afternoon that highbanking in which water is taken from the river is prohibited in California.  According to Warden Stratman of the Eureka office of the State Department of Fish & Game, any suction device, including that which sucks water from the river to operate a highbanker, is prohibited under the current ban.

Is Fish & Game interpreting the new law too strictly?

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  • Ken Robinson January 12, 2011 at 9:49pm

    hi all

    I am from AZ but i like to go up to no.cali to play in the water this warden maybe saying that you cant pump water out of a river could be a whole new set of regs for that.

  • Gary Goldberg January 12, 2011 at 2:03am

    Okay, I just read the

     


    Initial Study Suction Dredge Permitting Program Subsequent Environmental Impact Report


     On page 4 under Applicability it CLEARLY states that HighBanking is not included in the moratorium:

     

    The following, in turn, is an incomplete list of activities that are not considered suction dredging for purposes of the Proposed Program, as they are not subject to the Department’s permitting authority under Fish and Game Code section 5653, subdivision (b). However, other permits or authorizations from the Department may be required, including in some instances a Lake or Streambed Alteration Agreement pursuant to Fish and Game Code section 1600 et seq. (See also Cal. Code Regs., tit. 14, § 228, subd. (f).) • Use of non‐motorized (e.g., hand‐powered) suction dredging equipment; • High‐banking outside of the existing water line; • Sluicing or panning for gold; • Use of a suction dredge with its intake pipe removed but still using a pump to move water through the sluice box; • Power sluicing for gold; and • Use a suction dredge (e.g., cutterhead dredge) for the purposes of infrastructure maintenance, flood control, or navigational purposes. There may be other methods of placer mining not captured by the above list.

     

    • andrew hall > Gary Goldberg January 12, 2011 at 8:36am

      good post gary.misinformation/word of mouth/speed of light.here in gold country at least 40% of folks would say highbanking is illegal.because they have not studied the laws.or rather,the lack of laws specifically regarding highbanking.most agree that the law specifies settling ponds/nothing returning to the creek.a ranger may tell you his unit supervisors interpretation/protocols,but that does not constitute law.if the warden in eureka truly said that pumping water for any purpose whatever violates the sb670 moritorium,then he is a horses ass.tecnically,by todays laws,i am allowed to highbank/powersluice right in the creek.the word is turbidity.solids suspended in the water,downstream of my operation,measured in parts per million.read the law,and be free.settling ponds are the solution to turbity issues,but are not mandated by law.but since most folks rely upon word of mouth for their counsel,misinformation is the norm.were i to ask my local wardens what were the laws regarding powersluicing,they would say,uhhh well,dont muddy the water.then ask them the specific codes prohibiting such,uhhh well,my boss does not like it.as of today,there are no non area specific regs regarding highbanking. just the general turbidity rules apply.sure,that is going to change soon.670 is just a holding action,while eyes are on sacratomato,anti-mine law of 1872 stinkers are busy in dc.by the time this mess is fixed,worse problems.my point is,rely upon your own research.legal and otherwise,internet forums/rockshop gossip are fun,but should not limit your understanding of existing/pending laws.my 2 cents,happy new year.

      1212001239.jpg

      • Sam Sloane > andrew hall January 12, 2011 at 12:11pm
        Well, thanks for the input.  I agree the Warden was wrong.  But I'm not a lawyer, just an old goat (76) that likes to take my highbanker and drill holes in gravel bars (and fill them back in, of course).  What the Warden said hasn't stopped me.....in fact I was on the Trinity a few weeks ago.....but I have stopped booming.  Something about having a suction nozzle within 100 yds. of an active waterway.  Unfortunately, if a Warden writes a ticket and/or confiscates your rig, I don't believe that is a thing that can be argued in court.  I think it is considered an administrative action and outside of judicial review.  I sure look forward to the new regs. so I can get on with life sans hassle.
  • Steve A Reno January 11, 2011 at 4:04pm
    First, highbanking is not "power sluicing".  It's called mechanical sluicing.  The Warden who is an employee of a state agency can't make the law, only the California State Assembly can.  The Warden can certainly misinterpret it though.  There is an abundance of case law that an agency can't change established policy without some event (legislative change or court precedent) that mandates such a change.  Go back and read the dredge ban I think it's SB 670 ? and Fish & Wildlife's written policies to see what it actually says and judge for yourself too.  Don't forget the Warden Stratman has a boss he  must  answer to and eventually the court if sued for misinterpreting the law.  That's your best route. 
  • Larry Broman January 11, 2011 at 7:41am

     

    Is Fish & Game interpreting the new law too strictly? ... not strict enough  boats running on a river create wakes that disturb  river banks along their entire many mile trips yet a single piece of gold recovery equipment  is banned. 

     

     

    raising water out of a river must include jet boats and even the outboard motor uses water for cooling raising it above the waters surface ...why arent these banned it performs the same action as any powered prospecting tool ... remember you are "NOT" mining just prospecting for valuable minerals

     

    i wonder if you registered your dredge as a jet boat it would not be illegal to have it in a river ....i had a jet boat and have sucked yards of gravel threw the pump  whats the diff??

  • Larry Buzzell July 21, 2010 at 1:55am
    As a long time resident of Alaska, I feel so sorry for you folks living in a state run by extreme control freaks. It makes me *really* appreciate the freedoms we enjoy in our 49th state. We are endangered too, though.
    Gradually, so you don't notice, there are people (even here in Juneau) who wish to destroy those individual freedoms under the excuse of 'environmental' or 'preservation' labels.
    There is a loud group of well financed extremist 'greenies' that have filed lawsuits against virtually any resource extraction- fishing, logging, mining, oil, even going to the extreme a few years ago of stopping a small group of guys harvesting icebergs to sell glacial ice to Japan... claiming it was somehow harming something. We long time residents don't think too highly of these out of state financed extremists......
    • Joshua Andrews > Larry Buzzell July 22, 2010 at 1:08am
      And only ten thousand years ago much of the land was buried under Ice.
      Well Larry it only take a few bad apples to ruin the bunch.. I think its analagous.
      I wonder where these greenies get their money. Who has alot of money but the companies and governments. Who want everything but the companies and government.

      I wish us all more power to our Sluicing.

      :)
  • Gold Seeker July 20, 2010 at 8:17pm
    That's a bunch of crock, most of the F&G Wardens/Officers don't even know what their own "official" rules/regulations are and just make up their own version/interpretations of the dredging ban restrictions, you need to contact Mark Stopher, who is in charge of the EIR and get the real restrictions (or what your concerned with) on dredging and "suction" in writing on official F&G letterhead to show to Warden Stratman, make sure you keep the document/s with you while out prospecting to show to other Officers that don't know what the regulations are that may want to give you a hard time, also don't EVER use the term "highbanking" you will always get a "NO!" as an answer, you need to use the "politically correct term" of "power sluicing", when they hear "highbanking" they always think you will be "hydraulicking" with high power water blasting/washing materials down the hillsides like they did 150 years ago, they just don't know the difference!!!

    Here is Mark Stopher's contact info, by the way he is on the "other" side of our fight, but he should give you the correct info...

    Mark Stopher
    Environmental Program Manager
    California Department of Fish and Game
    601 Locust Street
    Redding, CA 96001

    voice 530.225.2275
    fax 530.225.2391
    cell 530.945.1344


    Skip
    • Gary Goldberg > Gold Seeker January 11, 2011 at 1:30am

      Has anyone had success in obtaining this in writing from Mark Stopher?  Is there a way to make it PUBLIC?

       

      Thanks,

       

      GaryG

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