Okay, before someone says it, I know I'm STUPID. Now that we have gotten that out of the way, I was hoping someone could give me some CONSTRUCTIVE advice.
I am nearing retirement and have been prospecting and dredging for years. My dream has always been to own my own claim in Northern California so I could dredge 'til my hearts content after retiring. So I started looking. I found a guy (Name witheld) who seemed to know a heck of a lot about filing and maintaining Gold claims. After talking with him and looking at a few claims of his that he offered for sale, I decided to pass.
Still wanting to buy a claim, I found one listed on e-bay that was in the price range that I was willing to gamble. By the time I talked my self into buying it, it expired and I was out of luck. I decided to contact the seller and asked him if he still wanted to sell it and we came to an agreement.
He promised to submit Quit Claim Deeds for all owners and file them with the BLM and Register the transfer of ownership with the County Recorder, send me all paperwork and a TOPO showing the claim boundaries within 10 days. Being the trusting (Stupid) sole that I am, I took him at his word and sent him the money.
After a few weeks, I received three (3) Quit Claim Deeds stamped by the BLM and a copy of the Preliminary Change of Ownership Report naming me as the new owner. The three Quit Claim Deeds were signed and Notarized.
When I didn't receive the fourth and final Quit Claim Deed, I called the seller and he sent me a copy of the UNSIGNED Quit Claim Deed of the fourth owner. When I go to the BLM LR2000 site, it lists me and the person that didn't sign the Quit Claim Deed. I haven't been able to find anything Recorded with the county (but haven't been able to go up there and physically check with the County Recorder).
Now here comes the request for advice: I conclude that I am now a joint owner in this claim and want to know what my rights are. In addition, since I don't know this other person at all, what should I do about filing my fees each year. If I pay and the other person pays, I'm sure BLM will take both our money. If neither of us file, we stand to have the claim closed. What do I need to do to make sure I keep this claim?
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Don't be worried about buying mineral rights (claims) on ebay as there are some very very good deals out there but you have to do your paperwork and don't rely on the seller to do it for you. Also don't worry about 'unsigned' co-owners. Contray to popular misconceptions, mineral rights, like other real estate gets passed down to heirs of deceased owners and in many cases these heirs have no idea they end up being co-owners of a mining claim and become 'silent partners' which is usually not a problem as long as you set aside there share of any proceeds when if you can finally track them down. Take your notarized Quit Claim Deeds to the county recorder and then over to the BLM and get them filled ASAP after the purchase and then enjoy your claim. We bought two excellent claims on ebay justy a few weeks ago and also had to do our own paperwork as the seller never followed through with the recordings.
My advice would be to file your docs as if you are the single owner of said claim: pay the fees, do everything as if you the man. If the other guy does it as well then BLM will notify both claim holders of an over payment. Allow yourself plenty of time to receive notification by BLM of any issues pertaining to filing the docs. A phone call to BLM simply asking "What happens to my claim if there are 2 people listed but only one performs work and files the necessary docs?" "When I record said work at courthouse and only one of us does the recording etc.... will the claim remain intact?"
I have a close friend who did exactly what you did: bought into a claim partnership. He sat back thinking the "group" would work it all out and perform the necessary paperwork. WRONG he lost the claim....no one did the job. Immediately someone jumped on the claim when it became open.
Good Luck. Keeping track of all fillings is a real challenge....my briefcase weighs almost 50 lbs after 33 years of mining on my claims.
Okay, here is the latest in my "Trials and Tribulations" regarding this sore subject:
I decided to take my small 5th wheel up to the alleged claim that I bought, over the 4th of July weekend. Since my wife is still working, we had to be back by Monday night. We left on the more than 500 mile trip up to the claim early Friday morning with our 3 dogs. We decided to stay at an RV park for the weekend and drive over to the claim Saturday morning. We found the claim without a problem, however, there were NO Claim markers or signs as stated by the seller. (He said he changed all four Claim Signs showing my name.)
I set my wife up with a chair in the only shade I could find, tied my two German Shepherds to the tree and let my 14 year old Border Collie mix just walk around dragging her leash. Since she has bad hips, she never wanders far. In fact, she laid down about 8 feet away in the shade. My youngest GSD (1 1/2 yrs old) walked over to the Border Collie and sniffed the ground under her. All of a sudden, she jerked back, shaking her head violently. I immediately called her to me and thought she got stung by a bee. When I put my had to her muzzle, it was bleeding and my hand came away with blood and a very white froth.
I ran to where the Border Collie was lying and I looked at the ground and saw movement. I grabbed the Border Collie's leash and yanked her as hard as I could while springing backwards and yelling "SNAKE!"
Since I had the young GSD's leash also in my hand, the three of us (2 dogs and me) went simultaneously into the air and back away from the snake.
Evidently, a snake crawled under the old Border collie, (who is pretty deaf and going blind) unbeknownst to her. The young GSD, who has to investigate EVERYTHING, stuck her nose where she saw some movement and got bit.
My wife and I took the three dogs back up to the truck and I went back to retrieve our stuff. That damn snake, which was a small Diamondback Rattlesnake, was still coiled up, right where it had been. After chopping it 3 times with my shovel. I returned to the truck and headed for the nearest town.
Being the 4th of July and not knowing where there would be an Emergency Vet open, I decided to call 911 on my cell phone. They were unbelievable! They gave me the address of the nearest open Emergency Vet and their phone number. I immediately called the Vet and got directions to their facility.
We arrived just over 1 hour after the bite and my dog was getting pretty lethargic. The vet examined her and told me that the treatment was antivenin (the name of the anti-venom) and intensive care for 24 hours. The cost would be over $1,800.00. Of course I said go ahead!
She survived the night and we picked her up the next day. The bill came to $1,835.00. The poor dog was so swollen up and I was nearly the next patient due to the near heart attack I had over the bill.
We never did get back to the claim to do any prospecting. If ever there was a claim purchase from "HELL", this has to be it! I sent an e-mail to the seller demanding my money back, but not sure what the next step will be.
Gary Goldberg > Gary GoldbergFebruary 12, 2010 at 2:34pm
Oh, believe me, I have talked directly to BLM and the County Registrar on this. LR2000 is a beneficial tool but it not always current.
Also GeoCommunicatior but that even further behind.
WOW what a weekend from Hell Glad to here your dog is fine hopefully the seller will give you a refund goodluck
Gold Seeker > Tim G (Creator)July 12, 2009 at 4:52pm
Gary,
WOW talking about bad luck, I glad that your dog seems to be OK, I wish you luck on the seller doing the right thing, talk to your Vet about getting "snake bite vaccinations" for your dogs they are no where near as expensive as treating a bite with anti-veneom, but talk to your Vet to get all info on these shots, I have never gotten them for my dogs as we don't have near the snake bite problems in the east where we are.
heres some new info,pertains to this subject.in the back of the blm claims book,43cfr ch.2, conditions for acquiring a delinquent co-claimants interests in a mining claim or site.you may acquire a co-claimants interest in a mining claim when:you have performed assesment work, paid fees etc with no contribution from the co-claimant.by the end of assesment year concerned.you notify the delinquent CC of the delinquency as provided in3837.21 and if within 90 days of CC having received the notice (registered or certified mail )he does not put up his share,you can acquire his interest in said claim.you would need,evidence of proper notification.a copy of the notice you mailedcopy of the signed us postal service return receipta signed and dated statement by you showing that you alone complied with the requirements as stated,and looks like a 5.00 transfer of interest fee.blm sacramento would be the place to do this.if you dont have cc mailing address,the law states you must run a newspaper notification,at least once a week for 90 days.were this the case,you would need proof of having done so.none of this applies to a delinquent co-claimant who is on active military duty.
Thanks Andrew. I did see that and I talked to BLM about it. They said that it is a very expensive way to go about it. I don't understand why, but that is what they said.
Update: I called the county Recorder's Office and they have no record of the Quit Claims and they will not accept copies. The Seller has the original signatures so I am screwed. I called BLM and according to them, I am a Co-Owner of the claim. Now, to file by September 1st, I need the signature of all owners. Since I can't get that co-owner to respond, again I'm screwed. They can't file without my signature and neither can I.
Replies
My advice would be to file your docs as if you are the single owner of said claim: pay the fees, do everything as if you the man. If the other guy does it as well then BLM will notify both claim holders of an over payment. Allow yourself plenty of time to receive notification by BLM of any issues pertaining to filing the docs. A phone call to BLM simply asking "What happens to my claim if there are 2 people listed but only one performs work and files the necessary docs?" "When I record said work at courthouse and only one of us does the recording etc.... will the claim remain intact?"
I have a close friend who did exactly what you did: bought into a claim partnership. He sat back thinking the "group" would work it all out and perform the necessary paperwork. WRONG he lost the claim....no one did the job. Immediately someone jumped on the claim when it became open.
Good Luck. Keeping track of all fillings is a real challenge....my briefcase weighs almost 50 lbs after 33 years of mining on my claims.
I decided to take my small 5th wheel up to the alleged claim that I bought, over the 4th of July weekend. Since my wife is still working, we had to be back by Monday night. We left on the more than 500 mile trip up to the claim early Friday morning with our 3 dogs. We decided to stay at an RV park for the weekend and drive over to the claim Saturday morning. We found the claim without a problem, however, there were NO Claim markers or signs as stated by the seller. (He said he changed all four Claim Signs showing my name.)
I set my wife up with a chair in the only shade I could find, tied my two German Shepherds to the tree and let my 14 year old Border Collie mix just walk around dragging her leash. Since she has bad hips, she never wanders far. In fact, she laid down about 8 feet away in the shade. My youngest GSD (1 1/2 yrs old) walked over to the Border Collie and sniffed the ground under her. All of a sudden, she jerked back, shaking her head violently. I immediately called her to me and thought she got stung by a bee. When I put my had to her muzzle, it was bleeding and my hand came away with blood and a very white froth.
I ran to where the Border Collie was lying and I looked at the ground and saw movement. I grabbed the Border Collie's leash and yanked her as hard as I could while springing backwards and yelling "SNAKE!"
Since I had the young GSD's leash also in my hand, the three of us (2 dogs and me) went simultaneously into the air and back away from the snake.
Evidently, a snake crawled under the old Border collie, (who is pretty deaf and going blind) unbeknownst to her. The young GSD, who has to investigate EVERYTHING, stuck her nose where she saw some movement and got bit.
My wife and I took the three dogs back up to the truck and I went back to retrieve our stuff. That damn snake, which was a small Diamondback Rattlesnake, was still coiled up, right where it had been. After chopping it 3 times with my shovel. I returned to the truck and headed for the nearest town.
Being the 4th of July and not knowing where there would be an Emergency Vet open, I decided to call 911 on my cell phone. They were unbelievable! They gave me the address of the nearest open Emergency Vet and their phone number. I immediately called the Vet and got directions to their facility.
We arrived just over 1 hour after the bite and my dog was getting pretty lethargic. The vet examined her and told me that the treatment was antivenin (the name of the anti-venom) and intensive care for 24 hours. The cost would be over $1,800.00. Of course I said go ahead!
She survived the night and we picked her up the next day. The bill came to $1,835.00. The poor dog was so swollen up and I was nearly the next patient due to the near heart attack I had over the bill.
We never did get back to the claim to do any prospecting. If ever there was a claim purchase from "HELL", this has to be it! I sent an e-mail to the seller demanding my money back, but not sure what the next step will be.
Also GeoCommunicatior but that even further behind.
WOW talking about bad luck, I glad that your dog seems to be OK, I wish you luck on the seller doing the right thing, talk to your Vet about getting "snake bite vaccinations" for your dogs they are no where near as expensive as treating a bite with anti-veneom, but talk to your Vet to get all info on these shots, I have never gotten them for my dogs as we don't have near the snake bite problems in the east where we are.
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