It will tend to do that any time its not being fed. Thats why you run the rubber V matt under to give some stopping power. For economy sake it makes sense to plant the machine next to the hole and work it steady anyway, or wait to run till you have several buckets lined up. I lasted about two weekends with miners moss. I didnt like it and went back to carpet. Gave it to a friend, and he swears by it, but he lives up by cle elum and doesn't get much tiny flake. When I got the TII I ran it a couple times with the carpet and then got a hold of Ken and got the right matt for that application. The whole catch bed is only 18" but it has a pressure drop on the front so all the fine lands in the first 4-6 inches. You have plate under the head so that fine should be landing there. I suspect the material volume and water volume is holding the fine suspended and flushing through. But the bottom line is you have to test and catch that real fine sample. Chunky stuff and thick flake isnt going anywhere, unless the 1/2" is bouncing it out. I added some of Ken's matt to my A-52. Keep in mind its laying in the current and i'm not pumping, but the first two riffles up front with the new matt, showed a visual increase I could tell in extra tiny flakes I could see in the cons.
This guy is running riffles and Miners Moss. He also does a gold test with chunky down to gold dust and recovers it. He can explain the basics on water flow etc. But he is also stuck with a 1200 gph pump that we all complain about. It works good enough for the demo.
adam your pic dosent show a lot you do need a control valve on the spray bar if you have seen the pic i posted a link to of a banker i build for a few friendsa and other ppl 3 to 4 ppl can shovel into it and not stop unless it loads up which ie very rare my anglel is usualy set at about 3/4 of an inch per foot of sluicewhich comes out to around 3 inches per 4 foot of sluice and that depende on the material being runin your pic it does look like a lot of water flow if your useing the stock keene expanded metal i would get som 1/2 raised expanded
i am not fond of the mm or the carpet that comes with any of the manifactured units there are a lot better things out there that will work fairly well as you can see in the pic i just podted it shows how i set up the nopper boxs i build over the last few years i have made a lot of mods to the keene and proline dn k honocoop and the promack bankers i believe that most ppl will agree that the mods have helped eit the fine gold recovery as well as being more efficentyour more then welcome to ck out the pic i have posted on my page of the equip i have built over the last 47 pluss yearsif you can find what is called vortex matting it does wonders for almost any and all equip if its set up right
With this info, I should have a lot better run and am really looking forward to getting out there and giving it a shot. Thank you again for such valuable advice. After my next clean out, I will post a photo of my results.
But can I walk away for a bit to get more material while the water is flowing? I was told if I dont run material continuously that the miners moss will clear out and I will lose any gold I may have.
Thats a LOT of water if your ground is giving up extra fine and flour. What happens in the Keen box and riffles is if the volume of water is too much. If you look at your box close the first 3 riffles are on a different angle than the last ones. They also dont have that riffle hood. Thats where any fines or flakes settle and when you run the water too high, it wont curl under so the fine doesn't tuck under but rides the riffle like a motorcycle jump and then right on out. If you feed slower, you don't need that much water volume and save some gas to boot. If you look at the picture you can see the water in the box has a lot of peaks and valleys. It should be fairly smooth the whole length, and fall off the end as a sort of waterfall effect instead of shooting off in space and landing a foot away. That and getting your material size down. Even if your letting 1/4" come through its hitting the fines and bouncing them back up into the water flow. I know do as I say and not as I do. Im lazy so the A52 gets 1/4" in mine but i know 1/8" is what I should do to catch the most fine. Running 1/2" and that flow is making a meat grinder that almost no fine gold can find a place to settle out. When I run the drop riffle I dont have a choice but to go 1/8" or watch it kick the flakes out of the riffles all day. Bottom line once you make all the adjustments is you have to know for sure. Count out about 20 flakes of minus 1 mm size and add them to a half bucket of barren material and count them up when the test is done. Wont do a damn bit of good to throw BBs or lead bird shot in. You need the natural size shape and weight of what your after. You can only do that by adding extra fine gold.
Ideal drop is one inch per foot but it all depends on your flow and the material your running
you can feed contnually ie sprinkleing in at a rate that lets your mat/carpet/ minors moss clear so that its not loading up if it does the gold just flows over the top and out !
Comments
Thank you Indy Jones! That was a fantastic video. This will help greatly.
It will tend to do that any time its not being fed. Thats why you run the rubber V matt under to give some stopping power. For economy sake it makes sense to plant the machine next to the hole and work it steady anyway, or wait to run till you have several buckets lined up. I lasted about two weekends with miners moss. I didnt like it and went back to carpet. Gave it to a friend, and he swears by it, but he lives up by cle elum and doesn't get much tiny flake. When I got the TII I ran it a couple times with the carpet and then got a hold of Ken and got the right matt for that application. The whole catch bed is only 18" but it has a pressure drop on the front so all the fine lands in the first 4-6 inches. You have plate under the head so that fine should be landing there. I suspect the material volume and water volume is holding the fine suspended and flushing through. But the bottom line is you have to test and catch that real fine sample. Chunky stuff and thick flake isnt going anywhere, unless the 1/2" is bouncing it out. I added some of Ken's matt to my A-52. Keep in mind its laying in the current and i'm not pumping, but the first two riffles up front with the new matt, showed a visual increase I could tell in extra tiny flakes I could see in the cons.
This guy is running riffles and Miners Moss. He also does a gold test with chunky down to gold dust and recovers it. He can explain the basics on water flow etc. But he is also stuck with a 1200 gph pump that we all complain about. It works good enough for the demo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzFX5g984HI&feature=plcp
Now I damn sure wouldnt let him watch me if he had that stick in his hand lol.
adam your pic dosent show a lot you do need a control valve on the spray bar if you have seen the pic i posted a link to of a banker i build for a few friendsa and other ppl 3 to 4 ppl can shovel into it and not stop unless it loads up which ie very rare my anglel is usualy set at about 3/4 of an inch per foot of sluicewhich comes out to around 3 inches per 4 foot of sluice and that depende on the material being runin your pic it does look like a lot of water flow if your useing the stock keene expanded metal i would get som 1/2 raised expanded
i am not fond of the mm or the carpet that comes with any of the manifactured units there are a lot better things out there that will work fairly well as you can see in the pic i just podted it shows how i set up the nopper boxs i build over the last few years i have made a lot of mods to the keene and proline dn k honocoop and the promack bankers i believe that most ppl will agree that the mods have helped eit the fine gold recovery as well as being more efficentyour more then welcome to ck out the pic i have posted on my page of the equip i have built over the last 47 pluss yearsif you can find what is called vortex matting it does wonders for almost any and all equip if its set up right
Thank you everyone for the great advice!
Flour (Indy Jones) Mike, Thank you.
With this info, I should have a lot better run and am really looking forward to getting out there and giving it a shot. Thank you again for such valuable advice. After my next clean out, I will post a photo of my results.
But can I walk away for a bit to get more material while the water is flowing? I was told if I dont run material continuously that the miners moss will clear out and I will lose any gold I may have.
Thats a LOT of water if your ground is giving up extra fine and flour. What happens in the Keen box and riffles is if the volume of water is too much. If you look at your box close the first 3 riffles are on a different angle than the last ones. They also dont have that riffle hood. Thats where any fines or flakes settle and when you run the water too high, it wont curl under so the fine doesn't tuck under but rides the riffle like a motorcycle jump and then right on out. If you feed slower, you don't need that much water volume and save some gas to boot. If you look at the picture you can see the water in the box has a lot of peaks and valleys. It should be fairly smooth the whole length, and fall off the end as a sort of waterfall effect instead of shooting off in space and landing a foot away. That and getting your material size down. Even if your letting 1/4" come through its hitting the fines and bouncing them back up into the water flow. I know do as I say and not as I do. Im lazy so the A52 gets 1/4" in mine but i know 1/8" is what I should do to catch the most fine. Running 1/2" and that flow is making a meat grinder that almost no fine gold can find a place to settle out. When I run the drop riffle I dont have a choice but to go 1/8" or watch it kick the flakes out of the riffles all day. Bottom line once you make all the adjustments is you have to know for sure. Count out about 20 flakes of minus 1 mm size and add them to a half bucket of barren material and count them up when the test is done. Wont do a damn bit of good to throw BBs or lead bird shot in. You need the natural size shape and weight of what your after. You can only do that by adding extra fine gold.
If your mat loads up with anything it needs to be gold !!! then its time to do a cleanout! Laughing here !
Ideal drop is one inch per foot but it all depends on your flow and the material your running
you can feed contnually ie sprinkleing in at a rate that lets your mat/carpet/ minors moss clear so that its not loading up if it does the gold just flows over the top and out !
So in general....
Run water flow slow, add material slowly.
I run the pitch of the box around 13 degrees. Is that too steep?
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