Hello fellow Michiganders,
I thought I would start a discussion to talk about the general lack of clear guidelines in the state for prospecting. I see other topics that have this type of discussion going.
It looks like we have several members attempting to get clarification from different government agencies. It would be helpfull to hear what everyone is doing so that we may be able to get some sort of clarification. If you have been in contact with the powers that be and care to post up it would be great. I'm not looking for information on anyones secret spots. Just general information about whats legal and what's not.
My intention in adding this topic is to try and figure out what I need to do to be legal in my travels this summer. I'm a newbie that was bitten by the bug this past fall. I have a sluice and a home made highbanker that I want to use this coming season. I have been in contact with the DNR and have to admit that the email I received in reply to my questions has left me even more confused. My second email adding more questions has not been answered.
What do you think?
Replies
I recently befriended 2 forest service agents. I have been asking them about what are the rules for prospecting on federal forest service lands in Michigan. They are clueless. They told me they would find out and advice me, but so far they are bewildered and have not been able to find anyone of authority that can tell them what the laws or rules or regulations or guidelines are.
Also of interest, they and their agency US Forest Service, dislike and are not cooperative with the Michigan DNR.
Both agencies apprently are rogue, do whatever they "feel" like and have no accountabiltity to anyone, but have all the authority they want to take. They are both truely clueless about any real laws (however unconstitutional) about gole prospecting. They just make up whatever they feel. They are no longer working for "us the people". They are working for their own power.
When I questioned one of the federal forest service agents about where they get there power to rule over me (they work for DHS), they should be working for we the people, he stood up, patted the 40 cal on his hip and said "right here".
pretty sad. I told him thats a huge problem in the ex America, the govt has a total monopoly on the use of deadly force to get what they want. If i shoot him to protect my rights I am a criminal. If he shoots me to get what he wants he is a hero fighting terrorism and completely legal. He said "well not completely legal" but thats right. ???????????? he had a pretty strange look on his face.
Im just going to look for gold and try to forget this dysfunctional "govt".
Hi Whiskey Rat, You got the right idea I think. I for one am just going to go out, do my thing, and if they catch up with me and give me a ticket,???? If ther'es no law on the books that they can show us then I would guess they can't enforce any. Least not if they take you to court. Anyway, I'm going back to the beach for father's day weekend again this year. Mabe see you there, Dick
My friend at the DEQ says there are 83 counties in Michigan and only 79 DNR officers to patrol them so the chances of being spotted by one is slim. I'm not saying break the law but the DNR has a lot more important things to do then harrass recreational prospectors if you know what I mean. If anyone feels uncomfortable being in the streams I would suggest trying gravel pits unless the state deems those trout pits.
Don't say that to loud. Next thing you know they'll have people looking around for flying fish in the gravel pits!!
The fact that they arbitrarily decided that only the months of July and August were open to panning is a clear tip off that they don't want the prospector to have any chance for success. At the very best, a prospector that found 15 grams of gold would only have $750 worth of gold. That wouldn't even pay for a lawyer to consult with if you were cited and fined. Heck just driving to Mi with my camper and gas would cost me more than I would be allowed to find. It's painfully obvious that they have no idea of why we prospect and play in the dirt. If a Fisherman or Deer hunter tried to justify the cost of his adventure by the value of the catch, he could never even get close to a break even point, let alone justify it as subsistance food gathering.
I still say that the Government still would rather that you look at calendar photos of the great outdoors rather than actually getting out on the land and getting up close and personal with Mother Nature. SO SAD! Dickb
Ok this is what my friend sent from the DEQ and if anyone can make sense out of it let me know. She says its not too restrictive, but it does look like we need permits.
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/deq/General_Permit_Categories_360925_7.pdf
I did a little reading from the links you posted. From what I get from the document it looks to be more restrictive than what is posted on the DNR site. The post below is based on my interpretation of what I read.
The DNR land use order only states that you can pan and sluice on state land with a few exclusions.
The DEQ link and paperwork state that you can only sluice during July and August. This would require a 50 dollar permit. (if I read the fee schedule correctly)
With this permit you can only dig with a shovel in the stream bed.
No sluicing of material other than river bed material.
The permit allows you to work a one mile stretch but you can only have 4 sluicing sites per that mile and they can be bigger than 300 feet.
No motorized sluicing is allowed so highbankers are out.
Sediment from sluicing must not travel further than 40 feet before settling.
They have a link to a map that has a recreational prospecting overlay which has certain portions of rivers and streams highlighted. From what I read, these are areas that they may issue a permit.
The document also states that the permit is also needed to use a sluice on private property streams where you have written permision from the riparion rights owners. The river bed must be made up of a majority of gravel. Most of the conditions posted above apply as well. So according to the DEQ you can't highbank or dredge on private property.
Based on this document I am now completely depressed about my prospecting options. I feel that there is no way I can be in compliance of all the rules as there really seems to be a disconnect between the dnr and the DEQ. I'm afraid it is going to have to take a "test case" where someone has to be hauled into court to set a standard.
I currently have a folder made containing the documents below:
DNR web page printout showing the prospecting rules and links provided (more below).
Maps of the areas I might prospect showing state ownership of land and mineral rights from a DNR link and map.
Lists of natural areas and natural rivers in my area from a DNR link
List of trout streams and a map showing the designated trout streams in my area. Also from a DNR link.
A printout of the DNR directors land use order that lists the requirements. This list DOESN'T mention any of the DEQ restrictions such as a limited sluicing season.
With this in my possesion I am going to hit the creeks and streams this summer.
Sorry for the long winded post.
Now my head hurts!
Keith
I feel your pain.
I also read thru all the attachments and it just seems logistically improbable to enjoy sluicing in my area of Michigan. The states offer of allowing even recreational prospecting on state land seems all but just a political ploy and totally worthless. Every inch of water in my county is either trout stream or natural scenic river or both. So unless the feds are correct at BLM and they do allow sluicing on federal owned trout streams, i am totaly out of luck. But seems this new stuff from DEQ would apply to federal land also so apparently the persons i talked to at BLM did not know anything about these DEQ regulations that would apply on federal land also i assume.
I could not get the map link to work that was to show the areas of streams in yellow where the permit could be obtained. Did you get that to work?????
So, like you, i will either just ignore everything and sluice and hope to not get discovered, or just give up prospecting in this area of michigan. Since i dont enjoy doing things that feel "inappropriate" I will most likely just give up prospecting in this area of michigan.
Arizona is looking better all the time. Although it will probly only be a matter of time until that state is shut down also. Seems to be a trend in ALL outdoor recreational activities for the anti agenda to shut it down or regulate it to death. Can you say AGENDA 21 is here!!!!!
Webwrangler here... on michgpaa.com heres the route to the Michigan DNR's pages concerning what we can and can't do... Click on the button STATE RULES ON PROSPECTING, there you'll see the letter Becky Humphreys put out for us prospectors... at the bottom of the page, I have links to rules concerning panning & sluicing, ect... webpage address is: http://www.michgpaa.com/PanandSluiceRules.html.
This is a start. Legally dredging in Michigan is pretty much an exercise in pain. You gotta go thru the DNR submitting an application the USACE for dredging one spot that is only 200 sq feet. It's only good for like a 3 month period. AND, here's the sillyness...ya can only use that one spot for the given year. You cannot go to a different area. We do have 2 places we can use our dredges in MI without worrying about LEO's... LDMA's Athens Camp and Barkus Campground near Pewamo. We used to be able to use our dredges at Sebewa Sand & Gravel as the owner there owned the land on both sides of the creek AND the stream also met the scenic river/trout stream/natural area criteria.
Highbanking, ya have a little more wiggle room but public land is probably something ya want to avoid here in MI for the time being. Given most of Michigan's gold is placer brought here by the glaciers, I suggest checking into gravel pits. As long as theres a retention pond to catch the discharge water and let and sediments settle before water moves on somewhere else, ya are good to go.
Theres my two cents worth....
This thread is a great idea.
But it makes my brain hurt.
The state is going to let us slaves prospect on their precious creeks, except for trout streams and guess what, every stream with any amount of water is a trout stream. thanks state for being so generous to us slaves. cant wait for your next token of worthless generosity to us peons.
hmmm, i thought "we the people" owned the federal and state land????? or do we just get ot pay for it and not use it.
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